Game Thread: April 23, Braves at Marlins
I'd like to thank everyone who made a contribution, I am really humbled by this. Again, the hope is that in the future I can make this thing self-sustaining with advertising (not as much as on the last version of the site) and maybe buy a sandwich.
Today's game thread video is dedicated to whoever had the bright idea to put a baseball team in an open-air stadium in South Florida!
Oh, and Langerhans must be destroyed! Speaking of, Bledsoe points out that Langerhans is "masculine. I think." Therefore, the tagline should really be Langerhans delendus est. I've decided, however, that "delenda est" is more or less integrated with the language. Plus he's hitting like a girl anyway. (I don't mean this to denigrate any of the fine girl hitters out there.)
UPDATE: Remember this? I think I'm going to bring it back.
posted by Mac @ 4/23/2007 01:00:00 PM
105 Comments
105 Comments:
Go Braves.
For those that care, I ended up getting XM. I was going to get a Nexus 50 (cheap, old, I don't care), and through a Best Buy discount deal, I could have gotten the player, the home kit, and car kit for $75 with shipping. However, my supervisor at Best Buy had one just chillin at his house that he never used, and he got a free year of service when he won it. He had seven months left on it, so I gave him $85 for the player and both kits plus the 7 free months. I hard-wired it into the IP-BUS connection of the iPod Adapter of my Pioneer head unit, docked it right below my radar detector, and now everything is FREAKING SWEET! I get 150 music and news channels plus every MLB game for the next 7 months for free. Go Rob.
Sorry to waste everyone's time with that. Go Braves.
Wow, 2 hits all season. I had no idea it was that bad for Langerhans. Or for us.
Totally off-the-wall question for everyone... does anyone here play MLB 07 The Show? I can't find Kelly Johnson in the game. Is he not covered by the union for some weird reason?
Rob,
I really like my XM
Mac,
hiw much mire $$$ do u need?
Mac, I doubt Carthago delenda est is as widespread as you think among Braves fans. Maybe some background?
nick, I play MLB 07 the show on my PSP. (Do you have a different version?) Kelly Johnson wasn't on the roster at the beginning of the season, but once I logged on with the device and got the roster update, he is there. Same with Dice-K and some others.
I think someone linked it, but anyway...
Cato the Elder, a Roman statesman, was not at all fond of Carthage, which had fought two previous wars with Rome, coming very close to winning the second. He had traveled to Carthage and thought that the city (stripped of all its colonies as it was) was doing entirely too well. Plus he and a lot of other Romans just generally hated Carthage.
So in every speech he gave in Rome, on whatever topic, he would add as a tag line some variation upon Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam: "In my opinion, Carthage must be destroyed." In shorter form, this is just "Carthage must be destroyed." This is either Carthago delenda est or Delenda est Carthago; both are used, and I'm not sure which one is right.
Mac, I'm pretty sure it's Carthago delenda est. Back when the Hawks were doing well at the beginning of this year (it's true, look it up) I text-messaged "Orlando delenda est" up on the JumboTron. I guess the point here is that I am a huge nerd.
During the Punic Wars (Carthage vs. Rome, from the mid-200s BC to the mid -100s BC; Hannibal was around during the second one), many Romans came to hate Carthaginians. The Roman orator Cato the Elder was one of those and he ended every speech he made in the senate with "Carthago delenda est" ("Carthage must be destroyed"), no matter what he was speaking about. That's where that comes from.
mmm...literary stuff. Punic wars, from whence we get the word "punitive". When Carthage was eventually destroyed, the Romans sowed salt into the earth so nothing would grow there. And the true irony of the story is that it was all brought about because Dido, queen of Carthage, fell in love with Aeneas, prince of the recently destroyed Troy. When Aeneas told her he must leave on the gods command to found a new city, she threw herself into the ocean, cursing Aeneas that the city he would found would ever be the enemy of Carthage. Of course, it was Rome that he started. They just don't write stuff like that anymore.
Yes! I love that logo!
I heard on espn this morning that dontrelle's wife was going to be induced into labor today. So he might be thrown a bit off his game, what with that on his mind.
I too love that logo, and I miss it.
Bring it back, sez I.
hey nick,
I have MLB07 for the PS2. I'm guessing Kelly Johnson isn't in the game because he was out of the league all last year. I just created him and it worked out well. I don't think they do as much research as they should for certain players. A lot of things are off, like Renteria has NO power in the game. I'm in my 45th game or so, and the Braves are #2 in the league for home runs, and I still haven't hit one with Edgar.
And XM radio rules. 24/7 baseball, all the games, and a damn good punk rock station. <33
So... if Mac is Cato and Ryan Langerhans is Carthage, does that mean that Bobby Cox is Aeneas and Matt Diaz is Dido?
And where does that leave Craig Wilson, or, as I like to call him, Gaius Mulletus?
I suppose this is where I should make an Uncle Remus pun, but that would go over everyones head, and potentially be taken way the wrong way.
oops.
Uncle Remus! I forgot about him
"Zippidy do dah..."
Although if we are casting ourselves as Romans, there's no surprise in our beating up on Ambiorix Burgos yesterday (I am so cracking myself up).
Hudson, NL player of the week
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070416&content_id=1908110&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl&partnered=rss_atl&partnerId=atl_toolbar_rss&affiliateID=atl_toolbar_rss
What does Chipper wear to Hooters in the winter?
Hic Jacet.
I'm starting to like XM too. I was going to get the Pioneer XM Tuner to control through my head unit, but I ended up just doing the Nexus 50 cradled and wired through the AUX input. I like the content, but speaking of the punk station, I would have liked to have less punk that is really old (Social Distortion, Circle Jerks, the Descendents; stuff that is way before my time), but obviously I'm not the center of the universe.
I'm going to love the 24/7 baseball set up that they've got. At any given time, I can get baseball talk in my car. My girlfriend hates it; I absolutely love it.
As for MLB The Show, every video game system blows a few players. In the last year they made the MVP Baseball series ('05), they had Langerhans as a stud, and Dan Kolb was Mariano Rivera. However, they didn't have half the bullpen, and Julio Franco couldn't hit his way out of a wet sack. There's always a few that they get wrong.
the guys at the NYdailynews should spend more time fact checking their articles.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/04/23/2007-04-23_coxs_crew_wears_familiar_brave_face.html
I would have picked KJ, though Hudson had a good week.
Rafael Santana?
OK, so here's a question for everybody to consider:
Langerhans is horrible. That's a given. The Chicago Cubs have a surplus of outfielders, and Matt Murton stands to lose time in favor of Jacques Jones (cough) and Cliff Floyd (cough cough cough).
Is it just me or does anybody else think he would look great in an Atlanta uniform?
McCann the Man
I wouldn't mind seeing Murton as a Brave, but 1) how much would it take to get him, and 2) is he that much better than Diaz? Since we're dealing with the Cubs here, I kind of think the answers are a lot and not much. But Hendry ain't the smartest GM out there, so if he can be had for a box of rocks, then grab him and let Langy stop sucking ass in Richmond.
Jacques Jones is going to get moved. Pie is going to stay in center and Soriano is moving to left.
i really don't see much of an upgrade with JJ. I think Diaz could meet his numbers given the same AB, there may not be as many HR but then again he killed the Marlins last year. i still say wait til the first 60 are played then let make your decisions.
Yeah...I hate Jacques Jones. He'd be another Francoeur on our team, and isn't our team batting average low enough?
I like Murton. Nice contact hitter with some power and decent defense. I think he would be better than Diaz in the field and would probably hit for a similar average but with more power. I think we could probably sacrifice a middle reliever to get him...
Perhaps someone like Lerew would get the job done, and at this point I'd be willing to give up any reliever not named Gonzalez, Soriano or Wickman to get rid of Langerhans.
I don't know why you would want Murton or Jones. I think Matt Diaz will do just fine if he gets the majority of the at-bats, plus he's cheap and won't cost any players like a trade with the Cubs would. I say we stick with what we've got, see what Langerhans, Wilson, and Thorman do, and then see if we need to make a move. I think our team is just fine right now.
Mac, I like how you can collapse comments on this thing. Do a lot of server deals offer that?
I'm a little surprised I haven't seen more people point out just how terribly Willie Randolph managed that game yesterday. My two favorite decisions were pitching to Francoeur with a base open instead of walking him to go after Diaz in the sixth and leaving Schoenweis in to pitch to Renteria in the seventh.
The Francoeur gaffe was inexplicable, especially considering he walked him in the exact same situation later in the game. And the Renteria one I guess could be explained away by the fact that Schoenweis is a better pitcher than Heilman, but it was pretty obvious that he didn't have it. Plus hell, Randolph left Schoenweis in for the rest of the inning, through another right-handed hitter and a switch-hitter (who Randolph seems to retardedly think he has to make hit right-handed all the time, even if he's been hitting that way for the last two games straight and has repeatedly proven he can hit right-handed just as well), and Schoenweis continued to get shelled and was lucky to get out with the tie game still intact. Just terrible in-game management. Hell, he was outmanaged by our bench coach (or at the very best, by Cox relaying signals from the tunnel).
Couple that with his incredibly moronic blunder in Game 7 of last year's NLCS that cost the Mets the series (sending a half-dead Cliff Floyd up in the bottom of the ninth of a tie game with runners on first and second and nobody on instead of bunting the runners over with Chris Woodward or whoever else) and I don't know why I haven't seen more people up in arms about his incredibly substandard managing. Now, admittedly I'm not subjected to the New York media on a daily basis, so I guess ububba can correct me if I'm wrong and people up there are constantly at his throat, but if they are, it sure hasn't carried over to the national media.
I'd really just like to see what Diaz could do on an every day basis. Bobby's response to what he was going to do about Langerhans was watch him play great defense in left. I'd make the sacrifice for the bat, I think.
That NLCS situation obviously should've read nobody out, not nobody on.
Here is why I like Murton over Diaz:
Murton's 2006 stats:
455 ABs, 14 HR, 62 RBI, 45 walks, 5 SB, .297 average
Diaz's 5 year career stats:
457 ABs, 10 HR, 45 RBI, 18 walks, 6 SB, .299 average
Murton has a chance to develop into a real nice player, while Diaz really is nothing more than a AAAA player/major league backup. I don't mind Diaz only for the fact that Helen Keller could hit better than Langerhans.
Otherwise, I like Murton and the Cubs have to make a move. Jones is horrible, keep him away.
In other news, let's go Kyle Davies!
He walks more. Big deal. You willing to give up a prospect for 22 walks and a couple home runs? That's what you'd be doing. Murton's not that much better than Diaz.
The collapsing thing is built into Blogger. It should be possible to find a plugin to do it on WordPress.
I didn't expect this... I looked up Murton's most-similar hitters through age 24, and wow!
1. Kirk Gibson (971)
2. Bobby Abreu (962)
3. Danny Litwhiler (961)
4. Wally Moon (960)
5. John Stone (959)
6. Johnny Hopp (956)
7. Hank Leiber (954)
8. Ed Bouchee (953)
9. Wally Joyner (952)
10. Gee Walker (949)
I don't see the Cubs dealing him, but I'd take it.
Also, he went to Tech; that may be a plus or a minus depending upon your point of view.
I love that we haven't lost a series yet this year, and have only lost two games in a row only once this year. And I love that we know we can play better than we have.
Rob, I'm not sure why you are so down on Murton and so high on Diaz. Yes, Diaz can hit for average. So can Murton...except he has more power and better plate discipline, plus he's a better defender.
Let's remember, Diaz couldn't even make the Royals. Yes, the Royals. I'm not agreeing he should not have made the team, but only as a backup outfielder.
Look around the league at leftfielders. It's usually a position fielded by one of the team's best players...Manny Ramirez, Jason Bay, Barry Bonds, Hideki Matsui, Carl Crawford, and a couple others come to mind. Diaz just isn't up to par with what should be expected out of a leftfielder. He seems adequate now only because Langerhans is beyond horrible.
Well, it's not like we're going to end up with him anyways but it's just a thought. I love the Braves, believe me, but when I see LF and 1B as strengths on most teams and an obvious weakness on ours, I see no reason to upgrade if it's possible. In this case, it's possible.
Not to pick on Alex at all, seriously, but I thought this was funny. On his preview of the 2002 NLCS, this is what he had to say about Damian Moss. My how things have changed:
"Moss has better numbers and had a great year, cementing himself with Millwood as the team's future Maddux and Glavine,"
For some reason I stumbled across that while looking at Mac's profile. It's fun to go back in time and see how much our team has changed since five years ago.
McCann, you just listed the very best players at the position. How about David Delucci, Pat Burrell, Josh Willingham, Brad Wilkerson, Raul Ibanez, Luiz Gonzalez, and others are on that list. Diaz is not a bad player (he's not great, either) and doesn't need to be replaced with someone who we would have to trade a lot of talent for and won't make THAT much of an improvement over Diaz. Murton's a good player, don't get me wrong, but Diaz can hit .310 with 15-20 home runs, which is not a AAAA-type career backup. That kind of production shoudn't prompt us to trade for another player who will only be marginally better. Trade the talent, if you must, for a starting pitcher, or a power-hitting first baseman, who would be easiest to find.
Rob, every single player you mentioned in your list of other leftfielders is better than Diaz...except for Luis Gonzalez. Burrell has a lot more power and draw a lot of walks, Wilkerson has more power but can't stay healthy, Raul Ibanez is surprisingly capable of putting up 25 HR/100 RBI (even though I hate him), Willingham had 27 (?) HR last year and batted cleanup and Dellucci is an on-base machine.
I have to reiterate, Diaz really is below average for his position. He lacks power...I really don't think he could hit 20 HR in a full season and his defense scares me.
On the other hand, he is looking better than Thorman/Wilson at 1B, which scares me even more.
On the trade with the Cubs thing, I don't think we want Jones and I don't think they'd give Murton up, so all this discussion of Murton is kind of a moot point. Cliff Floyd would be intriguing though, I think. He would add a solid bat to the lineup, basically filling one of the two major holes, and would be a good veteran presence. And it's possible that we might not have to give too much up to get him. We'd probably have to package off one of the youngsters tearing it up in Richmond, but it seems kind of obvious to me that there's no way all those guys are gonna see the light of day with us, anyway.
Also, I got the NLCS situation wrong. It was after the Cards had already gone ahead with Molina's homer, so the Mets were down by two in that situation. Really making Randolph's decision not to bunt even worse, quite frankly.
Agreed...getting Murton is highly unlikely, but it is nice to think about getting rid of Langerhans at least.
I think getting Cliff Floyd wouldn't solve anything, as he would be injured within a week and none other than Ryan Langerhans would take his place.
Jacques Jones won't be that badd a trade. Decent OF, and a righty killer. Would be the ideal part of a platoon with Diaz
Cubbies will be happy if they get a second baseman out of it
why do we need to get another platoon guy? If your going to get a new guy, get one that can do the whole job. the braves have enough guys that can kinda get it done, if you're gonna upgade, don't half ass.
"I too love that logo, and I miss it.
Bring it back, sez I."
I second this.
Also, give Diaz a chance to play every day. The Braves aren't trading for another left fielder this year. Give him a chance and stop with this left-right match-up bullcrap. It's obviously not working.
Or better yet: FREE BRANDON JONES (a much better idea than any trade with the Cubs.)
i dunno, i know prado has been lighting it up in both the spring and now at richmond, but i still don't buy that he has a serious future as a starter here. The Cubs are weak in the middle infield and I would consider a Prado for Murton swap seriously if they would, we might have to convince them that he can play short though. Looking at the comparison posted by Mac, Murton good be more than just a stop-gap option..although I'm still a fan of Salty in left ASAP, and I think Baseball Prospectus thinks he ends up there too.
Oh BPro doesn't want to put Chipper in LF anymore?
"I would consider a Prado for Murton swap seriously if they would..."
Cubs' general manager Jim Hendry would laugh in Schuerholz's face if he proposed that trade.
i'm up for trading Prado while he's hot, but do we really need Murton? The Braves really haven't been the team to develop hitters.
"Oh BPro doesn't want to put Chipper in LF anymore?"
I think BP stopped after Andy Marte was traded.
In other news, Andy Marte was placed on the DL today.
Kelly Johnson sitting on the bench today. Chris Woodward is starting at second base.
I like Bobby Cox. I'll be sad to see him go. But when he does, I hope the Braves' new manager is someone who doesn't obsess over that stupid "lefty-vs.-righty" thing.
Remember last year when he took .380 hitting Brian McCann out so he could bat .190 hitting Todd Pratt against Billy Wagner? There is an advantage, no-doubt. But it's so small. You should never base any real decisions on it.
And yes, that Andy Marte. I'm glad I never bought into him like so many Braves' fans did. His value was never going to be higher than during that offseason.
There we go Renty...nice single.
Yeah Chipper! Come on Andruw, let's jump on Willis early and often.
Oh it's Andruw's B-day today...he's 30 and Chipper's is tomorrow.
Andruw! 1-0
Hahahahahaha, nice job on playing possum Andruw. LOL
What happened to the Braves 1-0 lead? I blinked.
Kyle Davies=Dan Kolb as a starter. He even looks like Kolb with that facial hair.
Davies hit Hanley Ramirez and then Uggla crushed a ball that would've been a homer in a lot of other parks but it hit the top of scoreboard and he got a double...Cabrera grounded out and moved Uglla to third. Then Davies walked Willingham. Uggla was just thrown out at home, well he got under the tag but he didn't touch the bag and Pena was quick to run over and tag him for the out...and now Aaron Boone just hit an RBI single...Marlins lead 2-1
Arod just hit #13...amazing.
I know it's been mentioned, but I still don't understand: Woodward is starting instead of Johnson . . . why exactly? Johnson started against Glavine yesterday and did kind of good, if memory serves.
Jea,
I have no idea either.
Niice K...striking out Cabrera with 2 men on.
Bobby is going to rest Kelly against tough LHP. Just accept it.
Frenchy picking up that 19th RBI...2-2
Francoeur sucks, somebody bench him for [insert farm guy with no major league experience]. I can't believe he swung at that pitch. If he'd been more patient, Diaz could have gotten the sac fly.
James
Actually, Joe did have a nickname. It was Joe "No Nickname" Simpson.
Bobby would call him Simp.
What is with Davies and throwing strikes? Is it really THAT hard? I don't think anyone here would be a better pitcher than Davies, but I think some people on this blog could throw strikes more consistently than Kyle Davies.
Joe does seem to have gotten a big head since he is now on of the primary TV guys. He wants to tell me about 27 times per game that the hitter needs to look to go to the opposite field. I find that rather annoying. Ted Williams didn't hit to the opposite field and he did alright. Barry Bonds doesn't hit to the opposite field and he does ok. It's pretty much too late to make a wholesale change in approach by the time a hitter is in the major leagues.
Chris Woodward is 0-3. Nice one Bobby.
Going back the Anonymous @ 6:19.
I think, with the facial hair, Kyle Davies looks a lot like Kevin Millwood. Too bad he doesn't pitch like, say, 1999 Millwood. That would be awesome.
Maybe instead of a platoon for right-handed and left-handed pitchers we could have a platoon for good and bad pitchers. Then we can let KJ and McCann rest only when we're pretty sure the other regulars are going to score a lot of runs.
DAMNIT!!!!!!
Yeah, I think we all understand that every now and then a player might need to sit and rest, but let's think about this.
1. In the last 7 days KJ has hit .520 and slugged .840
I mean...i understand sitting a player when he is slumping but...i don't reallly know what to say. If you were hitting .520 in the past week, would you even WANT to sit?
2. Bobby is sitting KJ, the braves hottest hitter, the same day he is sitting Brian McCann!
Now, bobby has good reason to sit McCann, his hand is probably a bit sore and/or swollen. We should be thankfull that x-rays were negative and will miss the DL. But to bench KJ when you already don't have McCann and you'll be against (arguably) one of the most dominant national league pitchers of the past few years...the offense takes too big a hit.
no doubt, he is a hall of fame manager...sometimes i give him the benefit of the doubt, assuming he knows something we don't...but it just doesn't add up here
I think Davies has shown he's ready for Richmond again. Bobby Cox must be internally fuming about the walks, and McBride showed that walks are your ticket to AAA. Hurry up and heal, Cormier.
A.West
Well, this started to really suck in a hurry.
These broadcasters are idiots...first they keep referring to Willingham as "hammer" and just now when Uggla homered they said, together, "he's still DAN...UGGLA!!!!"
Ugh........8-2
finally that inning has come to a close.
wow. "uggl"y game so far. villareal has been showing his true vulture like self in his past couple of outings.
FRENCHY!!! 8-3
I am just so utterly sick of Oscar Villarreal and Bobby Cox for continuing to use him. We have so many great relief pitchers in the minors, why does the guy who holds the only Braves' blown save keep getting troted out there like he's good!?
It'd be a 2-run game now if not for his predictable sucking.
craig wilson has popped up to the infield more than anyone i have ever seen.
We must get a good starting pitcher....
Trade Salty....
"craig wilson has popped up to the infield more than anyone i have ever seen."
There was one game last year against the Pirates were Francoeur broke all infield pop-up records.
"We must get a good starting pitcher...."
There was a rumor during spring training after Hampton went down and before the Mark Redman signing that the Braves might trade Yunel Escobar to the Devil Rays for Casey Fossum.
BRAVES WHEN BRAYAN PENA STARTS: 0-3
BRAVES WHEN BRIAN MCCANN STARTS: 12-4
off the bat, i thought we had a 1 run game. too bad....so sad.
Note: This game would be tied now if not for Villarreal.
It's fun to watch Moylan's ERA drop whole integers with each out.
sooo....what do you think of this list
http://www.rollingstoneextras.com/patron40songs/
I thought it was pretty close, actually
Another mighty groundout for the mighty Thor. Lando, of course, is silent on all this.
Anon @ 8:04
I think Brayan has only started two other games so far, both for Redman. McCann has had the pleasure of Smoltz, Hudson, James, and some comebacks for Davies. Stop the shit.
pretty uncalled for anonymous. he can voice his opinion, and you can voice yours, but you dont have to be insulting.
"Stop the shit."
Take your own advice. What I wrote was entirely true, regardless of what pitchers started.
CHIPPER!!!!
just a double away from the cycle.
Insulting? It's like citing batting average instead of OBP. Useless, if true.
Come on BMAC, we need this win. I believe the mets won, they were winning 6-1 earlier.
i didnt say you were wrong, but the last line in the comment was useless. you made your point and made it well. the last line was just a cheap shot. on another note, can mccann save the day once more?
Anon said what he said was true -- and it isn't. You read my post incorrectly.
...............
Tough loss.
"Anon said what he said was true -- and it isn't."
It isn't?
Most frustrating game of the season so far, IMO. Horrible managing by Bobby, and a mind-numbingly stupid at bat by Renteria that would have done 2006 Jeff Francoeur proud in the 9th. If I were the manager, I'd bench him over that. Probably fine him, too. Seriously, your team is down three runs, needs baserunners, and you swing at ball four around your cap?!? Do these guys think at all up there?
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